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The correct way of powering the risers for the 470/480

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Comments

  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    edited October 2016
    ethfan said:

    FYI, the smaller the gauge number, the larger the wire. Thus 16AWG is thicker than 18AWG...

    ohhh, so 16 is better, alright thanks, good for people to be aware of
    ethfan said:

    I took out my clamp-meter and measured the current going into my RX480 Nitro 4GB. It is 6.3A through the three 12V lines via the PCIe power connector and 4.1A through the PCIe slot. That is to say, ~75W and ~50W respectively to the graphics card. In this case I would be comfortable using a standard SATA to Molex adapter to power the riser.

    wicked you are a real pro, those are some numbers I can put trust in, thanks.
    honestly none of mine seem even warm really so im not really worried.
    sometimes I think the sata molex problem is blown out of proportion, thanks for verifying it should be safe for 1 card per sata connector.
  • ethfanethfan Member Posts: 458 ✭✭✭
    @blackwolf, it would be wrong to generalize my figures. I believe the reference cards really did draw too much power through the slots until AMD did some modifications. Everyone should take note of their individual circumstances. Quite possible to burn down your house in certain situations.
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    edited October 2016
    ethfan said:

    @blackwolf, it would be wrong to generalize my figures. I believe the reference cards really did draw too much power through the slots until AMD did some modifications. Everyone should take note of their individual circumstances. Quite possible to burn down your house in certain situations.

    ok right, and i think some of the custom cards fixed that with their own PCB layouts.

    anyways my house is made out of concrete and steel with no wood in the walls and tiles on the floors... so its hard to burn down... even the ceillings have no or very little wood... might get some black stains but thats about it. they build houses differently here. if not I would have already burned it down LOL

    and i think those risers with the voltage regulators would be a good idea for anyone who is worried... might not be the end all solution, but a step in the right direction
  • t_ct_c Member Posts: 13
    The 6 pin risers have even more stuff on the board, is that because of different power connector, or are they just better?

  • sandal7sandal7 Member Posts: 14
    blackwolf said:

    sandal7 said:


    I dont know, it is diode symbol?

    yes you are right, it is a kind of diode... a stabilivolt; voltage-regulator tube (VR-tube)

    "Generic specification for gas-filled voltage Stabilizing tubes transistorized regulated DC power supply"

    it is for "anti-burn" so that you dont burn your wires...
    if people are worried about burning their wires.. that is the prescribed solution.

    so... i believe... ver 5 or 6 boards don't really matter ... that is what matters the most - the voltage regulator...

    like you said, it depends on the quality of the board and what is on it.. not really the version, that AND the guage of wire used in the molex to sata cables... ethfan says you want 16 guage over 18..
    Diode symbol on PCB

    img.jpg 90.9K
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    sandal7 said:


    Diode symbol on PCB

    good to know thanks


  • sandal7sandal7 Member Posts: 14
    t_c said:

    The 6 pin risers have even more stuff on the board, is that because of different power connector, or are they just better?

    This looks what it should be, complete set of parts, it is hard to find local seller with it
  • bhanu545bhanu545 Member Posts: 52
    The new elpida ram rx 470 nitro has a weird issue i observed. I am using a modded rom posted by forum member.
    It draws highest power from molex connection 75w max and making it heated up a lot. i doubt it will burn down 1 day. Anyone facing the same issue with elpida cards?
    How do i protect the connections?anyone who has idea,implemented already a proper connection setup please inbox me. Thanks
  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    edited October 2016
    t_c said:

    The 6 pin risers have even more stuff on the board, is that because of different power connector, or are they just better?

    The extra parts are there because this riser produces the 3.3V in a completely different way then the molex type.
    The 6pin type uses a much more complex switching voltage regulator from 12V to 3.3V unlike the regular one with the regulator that dissipates the extra power through heat.... It alone consumes about 5W on idle!, so for a 6 card rig the 5V->3.3V conversion with regular USB risers consumes about 30W in total, even on idle!
    With the 6pin USB riser the voltage regulator does not consume that much, because it's a switching type regulator. It's a much better solution and works for much wider input voltage range.
    And again: don't use the bundled SATA->6pin, use molex->6pin.
  • EtheringEthering Member Posts: 19
    @Zorg33 you said "With the 6pin USB riser the voltage regulator does not consume that much, because it's a switching type regulator...", did you mean 4 pin molex instead of 6pin?

    I'm looking at sintech.cn and sintech on ebay and I can't find this (4pin molex) product:

  • deucedeuce37deucedeuce37 Member Posts: 35
    edited October 2016
    @ethering Here's the cheapest listing I found for 6pin risers: http://ebay.com/itm/USB3-0-PCI-E-Express-1x-to-16x-Extender-Riser-Card-Adapter-SATA-6Pin-Power-Cable-/142127973319?hash=item21177cc3c7:g:RA0AAOSwAuZX5kU5

    Then purchase these separately: http://ebay.com/itm/PCI-E-Graphic-Card-Power-Connector-Cable-Adapter-4-Pin-to-6-Pin-New-FT-/141888925232?hash=item21093d2e30:g:3sIAAOSwFGNWTSy7

    There are also dual molex to 6pin adapter for the same price but I don't know if that is necessary.

    Wish I would have known about these before I ordered risers. If the simpler molex ones really use 30W extra for a 6 card rig they cost an extra $18.40/year per rig in electricity at $0.07kWh plus the extra heat that has to be removed from the room. Then again, I'll make $60+ in the extra week of mining I get by not waiting for risers from China. :smiley:
  • EtheringEthering Member Posts: 19
    edited October 2016
    Thank you @deucedeuce37
    To confirm/understand what @Zorg33 has learned; the 4pin molex consumes extra power and not the PCIe 6pin types?

    6pin would make things a lot simpler having to only deal with 12 volt. Speaking of which that 4pin molex to PCIe 6pin adapter you linked to is feeding the 4pin molex 5 volt (red wire) into the 6pin where that pin should be a ground/common (black wire). Why?
    "Then purchase these separately: http://ebay.com/itm/PCI-E-Graphic-Card-Power-Connector-Cable-Adapter-4-Pin-to-6-Pin-New-FT-/141888925232?hash=item21093d2e30:g:3sIAAOSwFGNWTSy7"


  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    edited October 2016
    @Ethering yes, 6pin consumes less than molex.
    And no, the red wire is connected to the second ground pin of the molex. They ruined the colorcoding.

    @deucedeuce37 be cautious with those adapters, i just got 50 pcs with fake 18AWG wires, that actually are like 28AWG (1/10 surface area!!!). I immediately applied for a refund.


    Post edited by Zorg33 on
  • t_ct_c Member Posts: 13
    I'm guessing you could also use the 6 pin to 6pin adapters and power the riser from the unused pcie without the need for splicing into a molex as per the OP's first post.

    http://ebay.com.au/itm/2-x-Yellow-Black-ATX-6pin-Male-to-6pin-Female-Power-Sata-Adapter-Cable-Lead-20cm-/272006453758?hash=item3f54d919fe:g:-vUAAOSwCGVYAtUg
  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    @t_c then better use a 6pin female to 2 x 6pin male splitter, because one 6pin can easily transfer 250W and you need only about 80W each, so 2x80W is only 160W. That is why I split them 3 ways..
  • nhandonhando Member Posts: 82
    edited October 2016
    hasher said:

    Those "farms" you see are most probably not using 470/480 cards, hence why they can get away with the SATA to Molex adapters. The older cards don't draw as much power as these 4 series cards.

    I have 143 GPUS right now (4GH), around 100+ RX470 with the rest being 480 all with ROM mods and dual mining so I am pushing all my GPU to the max possible power limits across the board. Sold off all my 290s and 390s. Let's not scare the newbies or existing folks into complicated or potentially worst Mickey mouse solutions. The intentions and explanations of the risks are spot on but I am afraid people will over complicate the solution and come off with worst results. Get quality risers, use latest AMD drivers, dual mine and feel the molex to SATA power cable to make sure they don't get warm which is a good indicator the wire is good as they all look the same but some vendor use crappy cheaper gage wire with the same fat filling to make them appear the same thickness. The same version of riser may be good in 1 batch n crap in another batch so do the finger heat test. Your weakess link and potential for melting is always that cheap ass Sata to molex cable. If its Warm to the touch, thats a crappy molex to sata gage cable. Use 1 SATA string per riser if possible, make sure there is no loose connection within the 4 Pin molex, loose connections when cross will cause sparks or fire. I experienced a few of those when they came loose. If the wire don't get hot and are not loose, you're fine. Go grab a beer, and enjoy the money coming in.

    P.S I don't care if it's 4pin molex or that 6pin people are recommending but if u get crappy gage, and they overheat, both will still melt the cable. I bought a lot of them stupid cheap 6 pin cables from ebay, if they can't confirm it's at least 16awg or better for the 6pin cables, don't even bother. You will just end up throwing them away as they will be a fire hazzards.
  • MakefinityMakefinity Makefinity.comMember Posts: 11
    Zorg33 said:


    @deucedeuce37 be cautious with those adapters, i just got 50 pcs with fake 18AWG wires, that actually are like 28AWG (1/10 surface area!!!). I immediately applied for a refund.

    How to understand if I'm in the same position like you with fake wires? How to find what types are mine - 18 or 28 AWG?
  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    edited October 2016
    @Makefinity it is simple. Cut and measure one copper line diameter and count how many copper lines are in the core.
    radius = diameter/2
    area = radius^2 * 3.14
    total area of core = number of lines * area

    bang.

    for real 18AWG it should be something like 41 x 0.16mm diameter
    Mine had like 10 x 0,09mm diameter
  • cidmocidmo Member Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    thought this was kinda cool, for all those wondering how the sata/molex fail
  • Tuner77Tuner77 Member Posts: 1
    nhando said:

    hasher said:

    Those "farms" you see are most probably not using 470/480 cards, hence why they can get away with the SATA to Molex adapters. The older cards don't draw as much power as these 4 series cards.

    I have 143 GPUS right now (4GH), around 100+ RX470 with the rest being 480 all with ROM mods and dual mining so I am pushing all my GPU to the max possible power limits across the board. Sold off all my 290s and 390s. Let's not scare the newbies or existing folks into complicated or potentially worst Mickey mouse solutions. The intentions and explanations of the risks are spot on but I am afraid people will over complicate the solution and come off with worst results. Get quality risers, use latest AMD drivers, dual mine and feel the molex to SATA power cable to make sure they don't get warm which is a good indicator the wire is good as they all look the same but some vendor use crappy cheaper gage wire with the same fat filling to make them appear the same thickness. The same version of riser may be good in 1 batch n crap in another batch so do the finger heat test. Your weakess link and potential for melting is always that cheap ass Sata to molex cable. If its Warm to the touch, thats a crappy molex to sata gage cable. Use 1 SATA string per riser if possible, make sure there is no loose connection within the 4 Pin molex, loose connections when cross will cause sparks or fire. I experienced a few of those when they came loose. If the wire don't get hot and are not loose, you're fine. Go grab a beer, and enjoy the money coming in.

    P.S I don't care if it's 4pin molex or that 6pin people are recommending but if u get crappy gage, and they overheat, both will still melt the cable. I bought a lot of them stupid cheap 6 pin cables from ebay, if they can't confirm it's at least 16awg or better for the 6pin cables, don't even bother. You will just end up throwing them away as they will be a fire hazzards.
    Read this thread from start to finish. Gotta say I trust your real world expertise. Had v3 risers, nothing but problems. Just ordered v6, using one per sata on 470 4gb nitros with 1500 mem straps.
  • un4givenun4given Member Posts: 172 ✭✭
    recently 2 of my SATA-MOLEX Risers melted ant took away my 1350W Platinum PSU with them to nirvana. PSU is working, but 2 x SATA Lines are melted on the side of the PSU Panel. Since i bought it used, cant RMA the PSU. Bought EVGA 1300W G2 and wanna connect the molex cables of the PSU directly to Riser boards. Is it ok like this?
  • LulaNordLulaNord Member Posts: 1
    Hi...i am a new user here. As per my knowledge SATA connector is good for this but it will work up to about 3Amps. Your 470 pulled about 5.5Amps from it and it overheated.Never feed riser 12V from SATA connector.Use 5V, because the cards pulls only 0.1A from 5V.
  • DrawdeDrawde Member Posts: 32
    If you use one of the MBs that has 2 molex on the board do you still use powered risers or go to non powered risers or at least some non powered.
  • TruthchanterTruthchanter Member Posts: 549 ✭✭✭
    Drawde said:

    If you use one of the MBs that has 2 molex on the board do you still use powered risers or go to non powered risers or at least some non powered.

    I don't know for sure but I would always go for powered risers over the mobos with onboard molex.
  • hemlockhemlock Member Posts: 8
    adaseb said:

    MARETH2 said:

    What about RX480 Nitro, which has 8-pin power connector. Should I still avoid using sata connectors for powering my USB risers?

    I don't have that card but the way that these cards are designed I think the power for the memory controller is taken from the PCIe slot not the 8 pin, so they all draw too much power whether 6 pin or 8 pin.

    You should NEVER use the SATA connectors in my opinion. Use the MOLEX instead or plug it in directly into the motherboard.

    Can you please explain why? I am currently powering my RX 480 4GB cards with the SATA connections since I don't have as many 8-pin PCI-E power connections. Does this harm the card in any way or is it just not efficient?
  • MiningShedMiningShed Member Posts: 18
    Zorg33 said:

    t_c said:

    The 6 pin risers have even more stuff on the board, is that because of different power connector, or are they just better?

    The extra parts are there because this riser produces the 3.3V in a completely different way then the molex type.
    The 6pin type uses a much more complex switching voltage regulator from 12V to 3.3V unlike the regular one with the regulator that dissipates the extra power through heat.... It alone consumes about 5W on idle!, so for a 6 card rig the 5V->3.3V conversion with regular USB risers consumes about 30W in total, even on idle!
    With the 6pin USB riser the voltage regulator does not consume that much, because it's a switching type regulator. It's a much better solution and works for much wider input voltage range.
    And again: don't use the bundled SATA->6pin, use molex->6pin.
    I just got a bunch of these 'v6' risers with the PCI e power connector. I don't have any molex->6 pin power adapters and will need to use the SATA -> 6 pin for now. I suppose I should only do a maximum of 2 GPUs per power cable?
  • TruthchanterTruthchanter Member Posts: 549 ✭✭✭

    Zorg33 said:

    t_c said:

    The 6 pin risers have even more stuff on the board, is that because of different power connector, or are they just better?

    The extra parts are there because this riser produces the 3.3V in a completely different way then the molex type.
    The 6pin type uses a much more complex switching voltage regulator from 12V to 3.3V unlike the regular one with the regulator that dissipates the extra power through heat.... It alone consumes about 5W on idle!, so for a 6 card rig the 5V->3.3V conversion with regular USB risers consumes about 30W in total, even on idle!
    With the 6pin USB riser the voltage regulator does not consume that much, because it's a switching type regulator. It's a much better solution and works for much wider input voltage range.
    And again: don't use the bundled SATA->6pin, use molex->6pin.
    I just got a bunch of these 'v6' risers with the PCI e power connector. I don't have any molex->6 pin power adapters and will need to use the SATA -> 6 pin for now. I suppose I should only do a maximum of 2 GPUs per power cable?
    1 sata cable per gpu isn't always safe. 1 cable per 2 gpus seems like just "asking for it" so to say.

    My recommendation is go for pcie or molex powered and if there is no easy solution stick to 1 sata cable per gpu. Also I highly recommend to undervolt if you are using sata to power the riser. Even with undervolted the sata to psu cable or sata adapter to riser may die within months if it works at first. This is my experience.
  • eonezzzeonezzz Member Posts: 34
    edited March 28

    This thread is interesting but i don't see a clear easy solution...

    How sure are you that 1 sata cable like this pic


    can't safely power multiple risers for 480s if the 480s are undervolted?

    am using this for 4x cards and no issues.
  • Crypto_RigCrypto_Rig Member Posts: 5
    some people are saying don't even try using a ver003 usb risers with the rx 470 nitro, is this true ?
  • Crypto_RigCrypto_Rig Member Posts: 5
    ok i tried a usb riser v003 on a p35 board and it doesn't work, could it be that those older boards don't support usb risers ? regular powered ribbon risers work just fine on that board, is it dangerous if i use those regular risers on an rx 470 ?
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